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Friday, September 30, 2005
Fantasia on 20/20
I caught the last part of Fantasia's interview on 20/20. She revealed that she is a functioning illiterate -- she cannot read to her daughter -- and was raped in ninth grade.
11:38 PM in Television | Permalink
Comments
Posted by: Ian | Sep 30, 2005 11:45:33 PM
Cannot read? How in the hell did she get to 9th grade then?? Don't they require you being able to read in the 1st grade? LOL
Posted by: Ivan | Sep 30, 2005 11:46:29 PM
She's illiterate... but she's a singer... So did they have to read her the words to her songs before she recorded them? O_o
Posted by: Ben | Sep 30, 2005 11:59:48 PM
I have a much different perspective. And much respect for any one who will tell things as they are. She is real. I give her thumbs up for her honest intervies and for the musical talent she has. She has the goals and desires all Americans should posess. I do think she deserved the American Idol title... thanks for the article posted here, and the quick vid..
Posted by: Debbe | Oct 1, 2005 5:45:11 AM
*Functionally* illiterate means that she can read enough to barely get by. She isn't completely illiterate. Ivan, you would be surprised how much people can get away with in school these days. Some teachers/schools care so little about their students that they just let them slip by. And Fantasia dropped out of school after she was raped...so she never did finish.
Posted by: Bijou | Oct 1, 2005 7:38:36 AM
I didn't even know she was going to be on the show. I wonder if she's doing anything to finish getting her high school degree now that she has a little success and money. I hope so.
Posted by: Sharon | Oct 1, 2005 2:43:21 PM
I would venture to guess that one would be hard pressed to finished even a GED if they can't read, Sharon. She is, however, working with a tutor to learn how to read and write. Perhaps after that she can focus on getting her GED.
Posted by: Bijou | Oct 1, 2005 3:12:49 PM
Is she trying to pass for a role model ? Sorry no can do. Let's not blame the schools - they can not educate those who don't want to be educated. If she would rather party than go to school and sit on her butt collecting welfare rather than get a job, that's her own fault. Good thing she got lucky and won the Idol - or the taxpayers would have to support her for the rest of her life. And, by the way, she still can not read. So much for improving yourself. So, what exactly is the message of her book ? Screw up, do nothing to improve yourself, get lucky. Sounds like a good message to young kids.
Posted by: Lisa | Oct 1, 2005 11:48:14 PM
Lisa: I was extremely disappointed in your negative comments, and I wrote this really long reaction, but I just deleted it as it was too much for my brain cells. It's just shocking that she revealed these very intimate details -- she was raped for goddsakes, did she deserve that too? -- and your initial reaction was anger towards her. You must really hate Fantasia.
Just ignore her. Hopefully that will make you feel better.
(I, however, am one of her biggest fans, and I must defend! Although, I agree that this book thing is a bit off. Until she cranks out a hit R&B record, I will continue to be disappointed in how her career is going.)
Posted by: Rickey | Oct 2, 2005 1:38:11 AM
I agree with you, Rickey. Lisa's comments seem to stem from a personal hatred. Fantasia didn't get lucky and win a damn thing. She used her incredible singing talent and earned the crown.
And by the way, Lisa, you might want to look up what functionally illiterate means before you say "she still can not read". It's something that affects 1 in 5 adults in this country, so don't try to pawn it off on Fantasia like she's some mysterious anomaly in a sea of prosperity and astounding literacy rates.
What's the message of the book, Lisa says? You mean Lisa has the ability to read, but chose to remain ignorant to what the book says, while simultaneously criticizing what she's ignorant about? Now that's truly lame.
The message of the book is that you will make mistakes in life, and you must learn to somehow overcome them and make something out of your life. Of course, you'd have known that if you'd bother to read what you tried unsuccessfully to criticize.
The message is not only a great one, it's being delivered from a young star to other young people.
But all this can really be summed up in just a few words. Stop Hatin.
Posted by: Fin | Oct 2, 2005 2:06:59 AM
I am not a hater. I was her fan last season. I think she is a great singer and has a great personality. I used to like her. And I don't hold her past mistakes against her. But I don't think she is a role model and I don't like to see her trying to pass herself off as one. What exactly did she do to try to better her lot in life ? Did she try to learn how to read ? Did she try to get a job ? No and no. She hit the lottery in the form of winning American Idol. What kind of message does that send to kids ?
And she is not "functionally" illiterate, she is "illiterate", period. She said she can not read books to her daughter. Her daughter is 4 years old, for heaven sake. That's pretty sad that she can not read books written for 4-yr-olds. And it's been a year since the Idol and she still can not read. I am sorry, but she is NOT a role model. A role model is a single mother who works her butt off to improve her lot in life, not someone who sits back and does not do a damn thing to improve herself.
And, Rickey, her career is going just fine. She is actually quite successful - no problem there.
Posted by: Lisa | Oct 2, 2005 2:30:26 AM
I just want her to make a hit R&B record and not get distracted by all these other things, like a book. I'm not a big fan of this whole Baby Mama thing that she was trying to promote for the first album for example. She should concentrate on getting her Fantasia "sound" out there first and work on celebrity and image later. She won after all because she was a great singer and not because she was a single mother. The singing is what I want to come out of her.
Posted by: Rickey | Oct 2, 2005 3:24:59 AM
I didn't say you were a hater (noun), I said stop hating (verb). You don't like to see her pass herself off as a role model? So what's the alternative, to not tell her story? To keep quiet and miss a fantastic opportunity to help others like her? Then people would be criticizing her for not talking about it at all and not helping people. It's a catch 22. Personally I think the best role models are people who have had experiences, made mistakes and can astutely aid and counsel those in similar situations because they knew the nuances of those situations. Fantasia is doing that. Why some people want a certain set of the population to keep quiet, I don't exactly know.
Did she try to learn how to read? That's what she's been doing for the past year. Did she try to get a job? Contrary to what you saw on 20/20, Fantasia got paid for jobs she did in many different places. Singing. Dipannita Basu and Pnina Werbner did a piece examining the curious miscategorization of black entrepreneurial activities. People often skip right by and don't consider these money-making ventures as employment, much as you just did. To the contrary, in the book Fantasia talks about how she, sometimes with her family, sometimes alone, got jobs locally and on trips, performing and receiving money. Fantasia has held many jobs, some making as little as a dollar, some making more. In fact, her resume goes from making as little as a dollar to now a million dollar contract.
So the answers to your questions would be yes and yes. As far as your "she hit the lottery" analogy, it's completely off. You don't work to go through audition after audition (essentially interview after interview, in line with what this was, a great job with a national recruiting pool) to win the lottery. Fantasia essentially extended her job search to a national stage, went through a series of interviews that were more extensive than more corporate arrangements for even high level positions, and performed her craft in such an overwhelmingly professional and superior manner, that she got the job. As Basu and Werbner's article describes, many scholars mistakenly brush right over situations like this in error, neglecting to properly assess the situation and assign it an accurate place among entrepreneurial activities.
Fantasia is functionally illiterate. Why you think you can sit in your home and assess her level of functioning is beyond me. Hippocrates would bristle at you. If you read the book, you'd understand that Fantasia has problems with some words...she's not illiterate.
You say you're sorry that's she's not a role model, but I think she's a great role model. Why? Because life is about making mistakes and how you respond. People rarely, if ever go through life without making a mistake. Fantasia's book is about self-esteem, finding your own personal gift and working to admit and overcome your mistakes. That's commendable, no matter how hard it is for you to admit.
Finally, I find it curious that you're continuing to critique Fantasia and her situation without having read what precisely her situation is (by reading the book). Much of what you say is easily dismissed once a person reads the book. Since you *can* read, I think it's important for you to read the book before continuing to make uninformed (by definition) commentary.
Posted by: Fin | Oct 2, 2005 10:08:18 AM
Rickey,
Yes Fantasia is a great singer, but she played that "Baby Mama" thing TO THE HILT during AI3. She mentioned that girl at every opportunity. I remember on episode where they cut to her cute little girl and family BACKSTAGE in the middle of one of her performances. That pissed me off then and pisses me off now.
Nikki McKibban did it too in season 1 and it got her to 3rd place. Josh did it in season 2 (he used his family AND Marine status) and lasted longer than some more deserving people.
Nadia Turner has a little girl and she didn't resort to that. She came in 8th. I bet you if she pimped her little girl she would have lasted longer.
Posted by: hollygo72 | Oct 2, 2005 11:09:50 AM
Oh and Scott Savol did it too. "I just want to make a better life for my son". In short, I HATE it when contestants pimp their children to win sympathy votes.
Posted by: hollygo72 | Oct 2, 2005 11:13:13 AM
To the contrary, hollygo72, I hate it when people never reveal their mistakes and misfortunes in an attempt to make themselves seem as something they are not.
Talk to parents of toddlers, mothers especially. At your job, at the bus stop, a restaurant, what are they talking about? What their kid did that day. Showing pictures of their child, blabbing on and on about what little tyler or peter or amanda or megan did that was so cute. At work they have pictures up in their cubicle and they rearrange their work schedules around their children. Many mothers breast feed on breaks or take time to go pump out breast milk. They take phone calls from day care centers, arrive at work late or leave early to attend doctor's appointments and frequently have stains on their clothing from some food-related mess their child had. Fantasia's world revolved around her daughter. Not only would it have been horrid for her to suddenly forget about her daughter, I find it awesome that she risked being voted out, by talking about her.
While you might think it got her sympathy votes, far more people were (and some still are) outraged that she was still on the show week after week. People called, wrote letters and chastized her in the media, online and even to her face. The same thing resumed when she tried to encourage single mothers like herself. The same grumble of discontent emerged on the internet, in newspapers across the country and on talk shows on CNN and Fox News. What Fantasia did was courageous and speaking about her daughter put her at a disadvantage, not an advantage.
Fantasia is doing a great thing by putting out all the details of her situation and trying to encourage those in similar situations to perservere, survive and thrive. It's a shame that so many people who would normally probably commend those who try to not only help themselves but also help others, seem to be caught in a haze where they can't see this woman trying to simultaneously lift herself and others out of bad situations.
Posted by: Fin | Oct 2, 2005 11:35:53 AM
I have no problem with Fantasia talking about her issues AFTER the show ended(Clay discussed his issues AFTER the show ended). But don't fool yourself into thinking it wasn't a calculated move on her (and the producers) part to emphasize it. It was used to increase the drama, drum up support for her from all the single mothers AND polarize.
I'm not saying it's the only reason she won. Because she IS talented and was one of the best that season. But that kid was used.
Posted by: hollygo72 | Oct 2, 2005 12:02:05 PM
First of all, I have no intention of buying her book. She will not see another cent from me (and that's from someone who bought 3 of her singles and 2 of her albums to help her sales).
Second, her "baby-pimping" did not bother me last season. Nothing about her bothered me. It's only when she started to act like some kind of a role model, that my opinion of her changed.
Next, how can I assess her level of functioning ? When she says that she can not read to her 4-yr-old daughter, that makes it very clear that she can not read AT ALL (unless the book she is trying to read to her daughter is War And Peace). And that's after a year with tutors. I don't think Fantasia is dumb - in fact I always thought that she is very articulate and intelligent in her own way. So, there is no other explanation for it, except that she is not trying very hard.
Next, winning American Idol is very much like hitting a lottery. Just talk to people who went through auditions. They cut very talented people just because they are in the wrong line or they are not exactly what producers are looking for this year. And, in Fantasia's case, there was a kind guard who let her through even though they had stopped admitting people before she got there. And then there is the fact that while Fantasia was head and shoulders above the very weak field of Season 3, had she auditioned in Season 2 or 4, she would not have even cracked the top 3. So, yeah, she won the lottery and good for her. I wish her luck. But that's hardly a plan of action for her target audience. Unfortunately, many poor black kids think that career in music biz is the only way out of poverty. And along comes Fantasia and confirms it. See, kids, you don't even need to know how to read and you, too, can be a millionaire.
And as far as working, Fantasia herself said that before AI all she did was sit at home, watch TV and braid her daughter's hair.
Her story was better left untold. There is absolutely nothing to be proud of and it's actually a slap in the face for all those single mothers who work hard and go to school (you know like the ones in "Baby Mama"). She is not one of them.
Posted by: Lisa | Oct 2, 2005 12:04:43 PM
I didn't say buy her book. I said *read* it. It's not advisable to continue to critique that which you are admittedly ignorant about.
I'm glad her talking about her child didn't bother you. Most mothers do that. You laugh and keep on with your day as they ramble on about what their child did that day.
As far as her functional illiteracy, perhaps the stories the child wants to be read are full of the flowery language often found in kids books, that gives her problems. Many kids books are "see spot run", many are not. One of my favorite kids books is Verna Aardema's "Why Mosquitoes Buzz in People's Ears: A West African Tale." It's a book not uncommon to many black households. Think someone with literacy issues can easily read that title, much less go through the text of the book? This isn't a black and white issue. She's said herself that she can understand some words and not others. Thus, she is not illiterate.
Winning American Idol is not hitting the lottery, and your misguided analogy proves it yet again. You don't see some person say "I would have won the lottery but when I turned my numbers in, they said I wasn't right for this year". Preposterous. Fantasia went through what was basically a series of interviews, and crushed the competition. To your assertion that she wouldn't have cracked the top 3 in other years, I direct you to the top 10 lists of songs from all seasons as compiled by MSNBC and Entertainment Weekly. Fantasia's summertime, a song she struggled to learn on the spot, trumped all songs on all seasons on *both* lists, the only such lists of their kind I've ever seen from media outlets.
As far as your "many poor black kids think that career in the music biz is the only way out of poverty" statement, you really need to study that article I cited. They specifically delve into that very issue and it will be an enlightening moment for you as you understand how people mischaracterize black entrepreneurial activities and err by omitting them from financial reports and examinations. Additionally, since you've repeatedly admitted you haven't read the book and don't plan to, your attempt to encapsulate Fantasia's message is laughable.
Fantasia has described in her book and previously how her family travelled as the barrino family and earned money for singing. DJ's on local radio stations have spoke of how she called in to sing for money. She talked about how her and her brother used their primary talent, singing, to earn as little as a dollar for singing, from people they encountered. This after their father drilled music into them. But you'd have known that had you bothered to pick up the book and read it.
Her story is great and I'm glad she told it. I'm glad it's going everywhere and I've already seen several stories about people who have admitted their problem as a result of Fantasia's story. That's great and I'm sure nobody would be callous enough to not want people to get help.
As far as it being a "slap in the face", that's silly. I've heard the crying baby mamas who meet her, are encouraged by her and encourage her in return. I've seen them. And to reference the song she made to help those people, then say it was a slap in the face for her to tell her story, is just the weirdest logical leap I've seen. Again, you need to stop speaking on what you have admitted yourself that you are uninformed on.
In some bizarro world I guess once she made mistakes, she should have just given up, not tried out for idol, then once she did, she shouldn't have told her story and tried to help others, she should have kept it a secret and helped no one. In addition to that, she shouldn't have sung a song about baby mamas to encourage them, because that was a slap in the face to them. Thus, she should have ingnored their plight and refused to help in any way, and just put some random song on her CD that wouldn't help anybody. This would then have elicited support and praise from you. Thank God this bizarro world seems to be a strange and distorted place, far from reality.
Posted by: Fin | Oct 2, 2005 12:49:25 PM
Oh and FIN. I didn't say I hated when people reveal their mistakes or misfortunes. I said I hated it when people PIMP THEIR CHILDREN.
Josh being married with a kid and in the Marines were not misfortunes. But they were ALL pimped for votes and it annoyed the hell out of me.
Posted by: hollygo72 | Oct 2, 2005 1:06:33 PM
So now we are supposed to believe that she wrote that book strictly in order to "help others" with her "inspiring story" ? Yeah, right. She wrote it to make a buck, plain and simple. Or did I miss the part where she is donating all her profits to some charitable organization ? Too bad that she is making a buck spreading a very damaging message. Which is, no matter how you spin it, sit back, do nothing, hit a lottery, still do nothing. It defies imagination that she can not pick a book to read to her 4-yr-old daughter. Maybe not the one you mentioned, but there are plenty of books out there that an actual 4-yr-old could read - trust me, I have 2 kids, I know.
Again, I don't care what she did in her personal life. But I don't need it rubbed in my face and her getting all sanctimonous and acting like she has something to teach the rest of us. It is very sad that she is being supported by the very people who should know better. There are so many single mothers out there with truly inspiring stories - working, going to school, trying to improve themselves. They will never make any money writing their autobiographies. But someone who did nothing to help herself except hit the lottery, will rake in plenty of dough.
BTW, I know that Fantasia is a critics' darling, hence her inclusion on various top 10 lists. But the public seems to disagree. Let's look at the last season's tour ticket sales. They were dismal, the worst out of all 4 seasons by far - they did not even sellout on Fantasia's home turf, where this year almost every stop was a sellout. So, no, she never would have won this year. What would she do then ? Go back to sitting on her butt and collecting welfare ? By the way, all the "enterpreneureal activities" that you described happened when she was young and in her father's singing group. How did she earn money when she got older ? I know what she said last year - she said she did basically nothing and never held a job in her life. Her words, not mine. Has the story changed since then ?
And perhaps you can tell me about all the charitable organizations she is involved with. Is she doing any volunteer work ? I am just trying to figure out what makes her a role model (besides winning American Idol). What is it about her ? Seriously, I want to know.
Posted by: Lisa | Oct 2, 2005 1:51:15 PM
Okay holly. What I described in my previous comment, is how she wasn't "pimping" her daughter, since mothers of toddlers frequently talk about their children. Additionally, the effect of her talking about her daughter drew the ire of more people than it drew the sympathy votes of others (or perhaps the upset were more vocal). Fantasia won because she's an amazing talent. She didn't pimp her daughter, she was like any other mother of a toddler, who frequently speaks of their child. I get what you're trying to say here, I just disagree based on the rationale I presented in my previous comments.
Posted by: Fin | Oct 2, 2005 1:57:53 PM
Lisa - so now we're supposed to deny people in America the ability to tell their own story and make money from it? You're kidding right? It's her story. This is America. Where on earth do you purport to have the right to censor people or decide how much money they receive from sharing their own life experiences? I'd like to write my story some day. Do I need to check with you before I allow myself to get paid for writing about my own experiences in life?
Again, you try to encapsulate something you haven't even read. You're saying she didn't do anything, while blatantly admitting you haven't read the book, so you don't know what she did. Astounding, repeated flaunting of ignorance on your part. Better to be thought a fool than to open up your mouth, or in this case hit the post button, and remove all doubt. Your lottery analogy fails, and I've described precisely how. No spin needed. Just logic.
Now you're whining more about the message of the book you freely admit to having not read. Priceless. All these questions you ask - read the book and you'll have some answers. Also, from your replies, I highly doubt you were ever a fan, but I won't even go into that further.
"Has the story changed since then" ? No ivc, it hasn't. The moral of the story, if you haven't picked it up, is that even if you've made mistakes, if you get up and try, you can make something of yourself. Fantasia's American Idol crown and subsequent success and critical acclaim is a result of her hard work, talent, creativity, drive and determination. The public doesn't disagree, that's why she's on the verge of having a double platinum debut CD in the r&b music category - something that isn't simple to do at all. But you can harbor your grudge for as long as you please. Good luck with that.
Posted by: Fin | Oct 2, 2005 2:18:38 PM
"Lisa - so now we're supposed to deny people in America the ability to tell their own story and make money from it?"
Not at all. I do not deny her the right to tell her story, but I also have the right to criticize her. Just because she wrote a book, does not automatically make the object of worship. She put herself out there in the public eye - she will have to take her lumps along with all the $$$ she will be raking in.
And, yes, I used to be her fan. Since you know my TWOP handle, go back and read what I had to say about her while she was on AI. I actually defended her from those who criticized her for being a single mother, "baby-pimping", etc., etc. If this book changed this fan's opinion of her, imagine what an average non-fan will think ? She did herself no favors by writing it. And, by the way, according to someone who attended her book-signing in New York, there were only 7 people on line. I guess not too many people are interested in her message, huh ?
And I see you did not answer my questions about what charity work she is involved with and if she is donating any of her profits to, say, an adult literacy program or such.
So, basically, we should worship her strictly because she won American Idol (since you gave me no other reasons). Well, it may be good enough for you, but it is not good enough for me. My role models are of a higher caliber than that.
Posted by: Lisa | Oct 2, 2005 2:52:53 PM
By the way, she sold 1.6 mln CD's. Not bad, but not exactly on a verge of double-platinum. Barring a major miracle she is not going to reach double-platinum status. But my example had to do with tour ticket sales, not CD sales - so I don't know why you even bothered to bring it up.
Posted by: Lisa | Oct 2, 2005 2:55:03 PM
My tita just told me about this tonight. Although I didn't like her on the show, more respect for her!